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Seekers of the Red Mist
(Varmint Hunting Discussion)

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	1 Classified Ads Coffee Events (7/0/0) (1 folders) Gear (60/0/0) Handloading (537/0/0) (2 folders) Humor Hunting wheels (20/0/0) Long guns (435/0/0) (1 folders) Misc (84/0/0) (3 folders) MostDangerous (29/0/0)	Optics (110/0/0) (2 folders) Photo Album (36/0/0) Politics (229/0/0) Predators (177/0/0) Short guns (72/0/0) species-specific varmints (73/0/0) (2 folders) Technology (13/0/0) Wildcat Rounds (111/0/0) (1 folders) ~FAQ ~Suggestion Box (44/0/0)

Its no wonder we have the problems we do

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Saw this on a local news site. Keep in mind this is the state (WA) that used an anti-bear baiting initiative to sneak in a ban on trapping just about anything in the world. Its even illegal to trap a mole in your yard! Pay particular attention to what the parks dept people say.
http://www.komotv.com/news/14621807.html

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What they need is a sharp shooter like my Brother,,He has taken 2 yotes with his 175lb Horton cross bow..one at 38 and one at 43 yrds,,no firearm discharge at all eh???

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I hear ya, this is my neck of the woods. I live on Whidbey Island, work in downtown Seattle every day.

Constantly keeping the rabbit infestation problem at my parents palce on WHidbey under control with a beautifully re-worked Ruger 10/22,(which is now a semi-auto, bull-barreled, bipoded and 50mm scoped 17HM2/Mach2 - see attachment).

The tree huggers throughout the state have painted themselves into a corner in terms of dealing with our coyote infestation problem, which has skyrocketed like everyone else.

All I'll offer is that subsonic ammo is great stuff.

"Was that a gunshot? Naw, cound't be. It's just someone hammering some nails."

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Oops - forgot the picture of the Ruger upgrade.

Ruger 17HM2 Upgrade.jpg (74.3 kb)

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That looks great! Nice job.

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I'm about 200Km or so above you guys. It sounds like you have the same Shub eating, tree planting folk that we have in our munincipal govts here...Tinys on to something though..Bring in the "sharpshooter" with a cross bow. The word firearm freaks out the tree hugers..Cross bows nice and quiet..The family 100 yards away enjoying their pic-nik..Would even realize on the other side of the tree line..A coyote is getting his a$$ introduced to his face.

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3 "S" it.

Shoot
Shovel
Shut up

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Haha i say let all the urban yotes live and gobble up all the precious fluffy animals that peopl hold so dear, see what all the anti's think of hunting when all their cats ans little dogs in sweaters end up missing hahah just picturing it makes me grin.

Mail Bag: Bob Simonson

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M orning Sir--

Just wanted to let you and the VHA know that Robert (Bob) Simonson, Kalamazoo, MI, has passed away. Probably only a few will recognize the name but to that few, Bob was well known as a maker of some of the best bullet-making dies in the world. His dies got a lot of guys started in the bullet business (Walt Berger for example) and won a lotof trophies in BR matches. He also worked behind the scenes on projects like the .17 rimfire, making bullet dies and some special dies for necking down .22 Magnum cases for the development stage. That was at least a decade and a half before the.17 rimfires finally were commercialized.

At his funeral yesterday his wife showed me a piece from (I gathered) a recent VH magazine article wherein Bob was mentioned.

I was fortunate to have him as a friend and at times as a boss over the years. He taught me many things about toolmaking, bullets and dies, precision shooting, but most importantly, by example he showed me the simplicity of doing the right thing.

Ned Christiansen
m-guns.com
269 273 4867

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Bob's son is going to start making bullets on his dies for sale to the public. Saw that on BR.com from the son.

Mike

Varget in the .204 Ruger

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I'm working on a load for a .204 Ruger. I've noticed in the load data that the max load has been maxed out not for pressure reasons but because they ran out of room in the case when using Varget. In fact, when using varget the pressure is 10,000 below the max for most of the other loads. So, I'm thinking I can get a long tube funnel to fit more powder and I'm also considering using a Magnum primer like the CCI 450 instead of the CCI 400. I'm getting very good results with Varget in other loads so I'd like to use it here but as is I wouldn't be using the full potential of the round. Does anyone have any thoughts on this idea?

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DON'T DO IT HAVE SEEN THIS FUNNY STUFF BLOW UP GOOD GUNS YOU'VE BEEN WARNED!

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That's kinda sad to me for some reason. I love Varget... been thinking of adding a sprinkle to my breakfast cereal.

(Just kiddin).

Ramshot powders has some data posted now. I had these ideas of glory and grandeur from Varget loads- but I guess that is not to be- too unpredictable and dangerous. I don't have a .204 yet, but I did talk a friend who is in a little bit better financial situation than I am into getting one. I'm kinda hoping he won't like it and will give me a chance for a trade.

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If I read this right, you were hoping Varget in a 204 would be great. I still think it may be. Keep in mind that the only real thing missing with Varget is the max velocity. Aside from that you are getting a reliable, tempurature stable powder that I have found gives me very accurate loads in other chamberings. Personally I'm trying to get as much speed out of it as I can so I'm doing the research on mag primers and how to get more powder in the case, etc. Even with the hottest primer and another 1/2 grain of powder I'm going to be well under the pressure generated by other powders who do get max velocity. I just want to use Varget because A. I like it, B. I want to have fewer powders laying around.
Now if I switched from Varget I'd probably go with H322. I've been reading some good things from people using it in a 204. I'd do H4895 since I have it sitting around too but its another compressed load that other than giving me more speed it would be like loading with Varget. Hunting down data has been an interesting time. When I go to Hodgdons fancy loading data site I don't find the primer info, etc very easily but if you go to 204ruger.com the Hodgdon data has the primer listed etc quite handily. Have your friend check out the 204Ruger.com site, it is basic but has a lot of data pulled from manufacturers sites. It also has a list of bullets and ammo. Not bad overall.

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Hmm. Do you mean the Varget is funny stuff or using a magnum primer? After posting the original question I was looking through more load data and discovered that much of he posted data actually uses a magnum primer, so I'm thinking I am on the right track. If Hodgdon is listing it then it must be tested farily well. At this point I'm looking for what the best primer might be. If you mean Varget is funny stuff then how so? I've used it a lot in my 250 and its been rock solid.

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I've been using Varget for quite awhile and love it. If you work up a load in the summer and go out to use it in Dec. it doesn't change up on you. I have one 22-250 that like's it best but all seem to think it's a good back-up. I can't find any n-140 anywhere right now (.308) so Varget is the go to. I have never used anything but Win.or Rem. standard primers and find that middle of the road speeds work great. Then again the only barrels I change out are 1022.

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the funny stuff iam talking about is over charging your shells not the powder i use the varget also good stuff.a partner of mine loads his .204 with it also and loves it.

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I hear you there. I wouldn't even be considering it if it were not for the fact that the existing max load is 10,000 below all the others. Thats a lot of headroom. I've also seen max loads from 29 to 29.5 so I know that if I were to go up to 29.5 I'm likely going to be fine. But then again, the most accurate may not be that high anyway so I may not even have to go that high. I may bite the bullet, so to speak, and switch to something else. I might have some 322 laying around that I can try.

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H-322 worked okay for me, but only for the 32 V-max. Accuracy wasn't the greatest with the heavier 35 & 40 gr stuff.

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Hmmm, did you get good groups? How about temperature sensitivity, did you see any? Thanks.

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I know this is about Varget but my mod.11 Savage (1 in 12") shoots the best with 28grs. of Win. 748 with 40gr V-max. 300 yard beer can size bputs!

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Well I got a chance to try out a new .204 load today for the Savage mod. 12 low profile. This time I used BL-C(2). Vmax 40gr with 29 and 30grs shot real good groups but the 39gr. Calhoons didn't like it at all. 33gr Calhoons with 30 grs did OK but not as tight as the Hornady's. This rifle sure is picky but that just means more bench time for me and todays testing let me know that it's been 6 months or so since I was out there.

red snow

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Went out today with my Brother ,and buddy..and the beagles..Rabbit fur and blood on the snow..14 cotton tails 40 degrees f,,,a beautiful day..just thought I would share good luck to all..

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BIG GAME season is over. How is a guy to stay sharp on his high power rifle shooting skills? Bounty Hunter 6, Kenny, and I went jackrabbit hunting in the northwest desert the other day. I was shooting my mule deer rifle, a Ruger .30-06 light weight with a 4.5-14X 42mm scope. Bounty Hunter 6 was shooting a Winchester Model 70 in .223 with a 6-18X 40mm scope. We shot several jackrabbits each and I took these trophies. I have them hanging to dry in my garage and will mount them for display in my office one of these days. {Maybe I will just use them to scare the crap out of the Supreme Commander pretending they are mice that got into our house.} I can honestly inform everyone – a .30-06 rifle with a 130 grain bullet is a big enough gun to take jackrabbits to the next level. We both wore ear protection while hunting and so after firing about 20 rounds each we could still hear. We would walk through the sagebrush and jump up jackrabbits. The rabbits had been hunted lots in the area and would run quick when we were walking. The rabbits would run about 80 -125 yards and stop and look back to see if we were still in pursuit. I shot at several while I was way excited and didn’t settle down on the target and concentrate on breathing and trigger control. After about 10 misses Bounty Hunter 6 was laughing so hard at me he couldn’t hit the jackrabbits either. We had a serious planning session out in the sage dunes and I decided to not miss so much any more. I was getting low on ammo. We ended out the morning really doing pretty well. It was good fun with my amigo and good high power practice.

http://www.accuracysports.blogspot.com

full+rifle+with+trophies.jpg (8.1 kb)

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I like your method of taking jacks,,I lived in Phoenix for about 3 years and while there I would venture to the bush and try and take Jacks,,got a couple but my method{as I was told to do by locals}was not as productive..you just bang rapid fire at them with a 22 auto..lotsa fun though..I like the way you do it though,, good training for big game.

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"Maybe I will just use them to scare the crap out of the Supreme Commander pretending they are mice that got into our house..."

Hahahahahaha - excellent idea. Just trim the ears and round them up a little. Show the teeth prominently, stand it up on it's hind legs like a rabid, man-eating predator.

"Honey, take a look at the rare North American MegaMouse I bagged yesterday! Got it while it was chewing on the truck."

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a herd of beagle hounds is great!...watching the rabbit sneaking away....then the dogs start bawlin... oooo good times!..the only thing better than one beagle...is two. happy huntin.

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I thank you sir..I'ts not so much the Bunnies but the races..and the company

Black powder 'yotes

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Anybody try nailing 'yotes with black powder muzzle loaders? I recently sold a .280 rem rifle and got a .50 Hawken rifle as part payment. I took this baby out and called a 'yote in to 75 meters and nailed her just behind the head! What a sport! The most fun you can have with your pants on! 100 gns of triple 7 and a 177 gn round ball. got 1900 on the chrony with this load and a 3" group at 100M Ok I know it's not for everyone but it sure is fun! Especially if you happen to live east of Sherwood Park in the shotgun/black powder only zone like I do!

Just came across an interesting article

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For everyone who has sat up wondering about the variables affecting pressure, here's one guys foray into finding out. Not bad overall. http://www.shootingsoftware.com/ftp/Pressure....ors.pdf
lw

6.5mm-.284

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anybody shooten this cal.?give some info. on your work, action, twist rate barrel length ect. Iam thinking about it, and buying the (F)class savage with the 1 inch barrel did you guys know it is a 30 incher. S/S 13 lb.

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This is the one caliber that I truely love. I have a heavy custom with a 32 in barrel with a 1 in 8.5 twist, and a sporter with a 24 in barrel and same twist. It took me awhile to get the right load dialed in but now it is nothing short of amazing. Using the 140 gr Bergers and Hornady soft points my hunter (sporter) will shoot 1/2 inch groups at 100, 200 and 3/4 at 300. My heavy gun will blast itty bitty groups all the way out to 450, then it opens up to a 2 3/4 in group at 500. I still need to play with the seating depth my groups should be smaller. I nailed 7 prairie dogs from one mound at 789 yards last summer. Dont get fooled into the Norma brass, get regular .284 brass and resize it yourself. But do spend the money on dies they are so worth it. Are you going to shoot in the 1000 yard matches?

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THANKS FOR YOUR INPUT THE PEOPLE AT WEB. 6MM BR SHURE LIKE IT FOR BENCH SHOOTING HAVENT BOUGHT GUN YET THEY SAY IT IS A BARREL BURNNER, WHAT SAY YOU.MAY GET REM. SENDARO IN 7MM REM. MAG.HAVE ONLY SEEN THE SAVAGE F CLASS IN THAT CAL. 6.5- 284 AND THAT STOCK IS ONLY FOR THAT, THOW COULD CHANGE IT.

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I have heard it can burn up barrels and it seems most tend to degrade around the 1200 round mark. I am getting close so I can give you more info after this coming spring and summer. If so just cut off the last 1&1/2", rechamber & rethread and your ready to go. But I'm warning you after you shoot one you will be hooked!

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WELL THE BENCH GUYS SEAM TO THINK IT IS BEFORE 1200 FOR YOUR MONEY I HOPE YOUR WRIGHT.WHEN YOU CUT THAT 1.5 OFF WILL THE VELOCITY SUFFER ? SOME SAY IT WILL I'AM LOOKING FORWARD TO SHOOTING ONE, HAVE NOT MET ANYONE AT THE RANGE THAT HAS ONE TO ASK TO SHOOT HIS, PUT MY BUB. SAYS HE HAS SEEN A GUY THERE WITH ONE SO I'LL KEEP AN EYE OPEN FOR HIM. AS I SAID ABOUT THE 7MM HAVE NOT SHOT ONE YET EATHER BUT WILL, THANKS FOR YOUR INPUT. BEN B.

.308 woes

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After reading earler this year that Noslers shouldn't be crimped,I went and pulled 5 apart and reworked the case mouth and put the same powder back in with new bullets. Guess what HB, the groups went from 1 1/2 in. to 3/4. Thanks again for the advice! This Savage likes 150gr BT's w/ 40.9gr N-140. C.O.L of 2.925 due to magazine size. No more woes!

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Nice!
....details, details.

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I did extensive testing with my loads and found that crimps are just not required on my rounds. The bench rest guys in my club seat their bullets in a very loose neck and with the ogive touching the lands in their rifles. I set the ogive back 1/64th from the lands and don't crimp. The Sierra 150gn BTSP with 44 gns of re-15 and a federal case with a CCI 200 primer is my majic load.
Three rounds cloverleaf at 100 meters and the group opens up to 3/4" at 200 meters. I nailed two deer this fall with this load and both were spinal (neck) shots. Instantaneous incapacitation!

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I need to work up a .308 load and get some trigger time on a rifle I bought over a year ago. It galls me to have a rifle that I have not learned to shoot.

So far I have loaded up some W-748 behind Nosler 165-grain Custom Competition bullets. This load shows signs that it wants to shoot. However, I'm not sure I want to use 748 as my main powder for this caliber. I keep hearing good things about Varget in the 308, so long as you use a near-max load to keep pressures up. I also have heard that Reloader-15 is an excellent powder for the 308.

How many of you are using Varget to reload 223? Since the 223 and 308 use the same or similar powder, it would make sense to develop loads with the same powder. Currently my primary 223 load is W-748 and Nosler 50-grain BTs.

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i use varget in 223 22-250 243win,it works good for me,i dont have expensive rifles.all 3 are 788s,26gr in 223 36 in 22-250 38 in 243 .seated .010 off the lands if the magazine will hold it. these aren't hot loads they just shoot good in my guns! good luck,keep us posted!

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I use Varget exclusively in 50,55 Nos BTs & 69 HPBT gr projectiles propelled from my M12 Sav in 223. I also reload for several others using similar rifles and again utilize Varget. Last yr worked up load, admittedly with a good deal of luck, that won me some money at 600 yards (sub 4 inch grp). Depending on ur particular rifle's characteristics, somewhere around 27.5/55, 27.7/50,25.5/69 is good place to start fine tuning ur 5.56 and around 46.2 for ur 7.62. To be totally honest, I no longer shoot a .308 so I cannot verify how this powder works with that ctrg, but I do not feel you would be disappointed. My empirical data is compiled just for the one calibre.

Just checked my logbook to verify my numbers and one spectacular group using 25.7 behind a Sierra 53gr HP measured point zero nine-five inch at av vel of 3304 fps. It took me about twelve weeks to load the fifty 69 gr rds and the 50 53 gr rds as all were essentially within a thou of an inch tolerance (Match Grade). That is why I'll never become a bench-rest type.

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Hi guys, I have not tried the varget yet and most likely will not. The best load I have found is the 168 gr Sierra Match King on top of 45.2 gr of Ramshot TAC with CCI 200 primers. This will do a ragged hole for 9 shots at 100 yards that you can cover with a dime. The very last shot was 0.1 gr more powder and it went a half inch out. The group is identical at 200 and opens up to a quarter size at 300. After the snow melts I will shoot out to 800 and find out what else I need to do and how it groups. I only loaded up 30 rounds for each load but that is taken care of now and I am ready!

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Brawny! I'd try the Varget before saying I won't! Definitely burn up the old juice first.

I kind of like it now! works great in .223, 55 Sierra Blitzking Molys, and .243 80 Nosler BT's that I moly myself. Moly to me is kind of becoming, as the auto salesman say's, and quote! STANDARD EQUIPMENT!

Varget definitely likes the heavier bullets that I've seen!

I load 45 (almost compressed), in mine! .308! As old school dictates, work up! I actually shoot awesome freaking groups with Rel 15!!! go figure.

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What make of brass are you using? I went up to 46.5 gr of TAC and it was right to the top of the shoulder. I shoot Hornady match .308 brass and it has really held up to some pounding. I may try the Varget in my .223 but the TAC is working good for now.

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Lake city brass! But Varget, Not Tac. Thats Ramshot!

I bought a pound of the Hunter for my .243, but am not happy. I think it's kind of junk.

Rel 15! It works in mine!

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HAVE USED VARGET IN ALL CAL'S TALKED ABOUT ABOVE AND WITH GOOD GROUPS OUT TO 300 YARDS USING HORNADY A-MAX, WIN. CASES AND WIN PRIMERS IN ALL 3 CASES PREPED TO THE MAX.FIRE FORMED AND NECK SIZED ONLY NO FULL BOAT LOADS.TWO DOWN FROM MAX IN THE HORNADY LOAD BOOK.

Varmint Gernades

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Has any one else given these a try in .22? And have you been able to get a group?

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I have to second that. Last I heard people couldn't get them to group well at all. I saw that they are making them for .204 and wanted to try them out but I'm afraid to given I haven't heard good reports on accuracy (and the fact they weren't available yet). Guess I'll stick with V-Max for now.

Brawny, you were also talking about Varget. Varget has worked great for me in 22 cal loads, and I'm looking at trying it in several other chamberings. I can get consistant single jagged holes at 100 yds without much problem (using a Tikka T3 in 22-250). In fact you can see the results in the SRM photo album page. If it works as well in .204, 30-06, etc it will end up being my most popular powder. I'd like to reduce the 5 different powders I use for rifles to fewer if I can.

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I'm not going to mess with the .204's since the V-max works so well. I dont want to dog on Barnes but the only bullet I could ever get to group from them was the 'burner' in .224. That one worked real well and did great things to prairie dogs so of course they stopped making it. I tried their tripple shock on elk and I hate to admit it but it was the first elk I have ever shot and lost, but I did get the bullet back, it didnt open up. I heard they have since changed the composition but they lost me with that one.

Have a happy new year, everyone!

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Here's hoping everyone has a good year in 2008!!

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May you have more time in the field than at the bench. May you be driven to the reloading bench by too much empty brass. May you have to order primers and powder in bulk twice this year. May the air around you be filled with mist and the ground littered with tiny body parts.

Happy Shooter's New Year!

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Happy new year everyone!

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