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(Varmint Hunting Discussion)

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Looking for Sioux Falls Guide for hunt

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I am looking for a guide to take party of 3 to 4 shooters out the 13th and 14th of June in the vicinity of Sioux Falls SD. Anyone have any recommendations?

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While I am no expert, I'm not sure the Sioux Falls area has PDs. That area is pretty much dedicated to agriculture, and PD towns cannot survive on land that is plowed a few times a year.

To my (limited) knowledge, PDs are generally west of the Missouri river where its dryer and more land is dedicated to grazing.

You may end up driving a few hours west. Please keep us updated on what happens.

Thanks!
HB

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You were talking about p'dogs? Fairly simple, p'dogs are the tree squirrels of the grasslands. No trees almost, so they live in the ground in holes like rats, mice, rabbits, their cousins... all rodents. No bushy tails either. Approx. Iowa and half of NE/SD/ND is "mid grass prairie." Point, the grass gets too tall too quick, and predators sneak up on the p'dog and make a meal... As said, plowing is disruptive too. You need "short grass praire." In SD that starts about the Missouri river, mid state, not quite. Sioux Falls is way east. Might find an occassional, but better coyotes, raccoons, fox, etc. Drop a line, north/south thru Pierre SD and Grand Island NE and you will be o.k. west of there. Think the "old west cattle country" as per Hollywood in the black and white movies (which were made in CA for the most part, ha, ha). West Tx north to Montana. Actually from Mexico to Canada, but try to take 1,000 rounds into MX or Canada. (ha, ha). In SD, the Native American Reservations (Indians on the Rez) market. Rosebud is south center of the state. Pine Ridge, where there is a drinking problem according to the newspapers, due west. Center, Lower Brule. North Center, Standing Rock. You can google the names for current rules and availability. SW corner, Buffalo Gap National Grassland. Eagle Butte. Fort Yates. Beware the plague and the areas CLOSED for black footed ferrets. !! Guide for Pine Ridge on lakatomall.com. Rocking Heart/Scherbarth, Chadron, NE. But around Sioux Falls, sorry, look in the zoos and pet stores... Enjoy. Luck.

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Thank you for the help, we ended up going west like you suggested on to the Rosebud last weekend.

I was surprised at how few targets were under 300M. At least 50% of our targets were beyond 300M. I learned a lot and had a blast.

However, we saw fewer prairie dogs than I thought we would.

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#1). glad you had a good time.
#2). You have to remember that there has been a drought [during which the ag types dreaming of more grass encourage government poisoning or do it themselves] that has lasted over 10 years. Even before that the "plague" got going and "thinned out" towns MUCH. You may hear stories of 500 round days. No bull, just not real recently. And "the Rosebud" works at attracting shooters. That keeps numbers down too. FYI VHA (Varmint Hunter's Assoc. varminthunter.org I think) is in Pierre, SD and has 800 number, web site, parties, etc. In the magazine you might find a guide with alot more "self erecting biodegradeable targets." Luck.

news please!

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i have not been to s. dakota 4 2 years.please someone tell me a story about the dogs! 2yr ago the ranchers around white river poisoned dogs...and got a good kill! i haven't been back since. 2 trips to idaho 4 elk, i really miss shooting dogs,someone make up a story !lets hear about your shooting... this site is about varmint shooting! lets hear it! thanks gezzer...i have been shooting .22cal silhouettes at friendship in. with my son...fun but not the same as dogs

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Hey buddy sorry no story on PD's just a question..isn't Friendship where they have that big muzzle loader ron-day-voo ??? take care your Hoosier Buddy from up north..Medaryville

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yes they shoot national muzzle loading matches,just about anything black powder they shoot! the walter cline range. nmlra they have a website also!

Inexpensive front rest

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For varmint shooting and casual bench shooting, am I better off with the Caldwell Fire Control or the Sinclair lightweight rest? They are both abou $175. If Caldwell, the full rest or just the front rest? Thanks again to all for the help.

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I used to have a Caldwell lead sled but since have gone to just using a Harris Benchrest model bipod with a rear bunny ear bag. It's rock solid and keeps me sharp when I shoot off my 9-13" Harris in the field. The "lead sled" didn't allow the rifle to recoil naturally and my group sizes suffered. A 1 1/4" group with the rest turned into a 3/4" rest with the bipod. I have yet to find anything better or easier than the bipod/sandbag combo.

Newbie scope mounting questions

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When mounting and bore sighting a new scope, do you set the elevation knob in the middle of its range or dial it all the way down to give you maximum elevation when needed? The guy that mounted and bore sighted my scope had me off seven inches high and right at 100 yards. I wonder if he did it properly. Thanks.

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Scope mounting is almost as much art as it is mechanics.

Unless you are mounting a scope on a dedicated long-range rifle(1,000 yards), I would center the reticule as one of the first steps.

I would also ensure the rings are aligned. Lap them if needed (this is usually the case).

In lieu of lapping, I like to use rings with inserts like the Burris Signature Rings.

Ideally, the rings will point a centered scope in the same direction as the bore. Too often the scope and the bore are NOT lined up and the scope needs significant adjustment. This can be largely fixed with offset ring inserts - just one more reason why I like those rings.

Adressing your particular case:
Bore-sighting a scope is intended to get you on paper at 100 yards. It is not intended to zero the scope, so it sounds like the guy who mounted the scope did OK.

To zero the scope you actually need to shoot it with the particular ammunition that you'll be using.
Someone else shooting that same ammunition will probably get closer to your zero than with bore-sighting, though I would not count on it to zero the rifle when you shoot it.

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Ditto what HB had posted. I've used the Burris Sig. rings before with great results. I've also used Leupold rings that use the dovetail in the front ring and a windage adjustable ring in the rear. Another reason I would go with the Burris' is that the offset insert kit will also allow you to get additional elevation if you run out trying to dial in a really long range shot. You can put the rear insert to offset high and the front to offset low. This gives you the same effect as a 20MOA mount.

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Gotta agree with HB and Hoghntr on this one. Since the purpose of bore sighting is to get you on paper you basically got what you were told. I've mostly used the Leupold rings with the windage adj. They work, they are solid, etc. These days when people ask me about scopes, rings, etc I first refer them to the video tutorials on Midway USA's site. Good stuff overall. In your case choose the "How to sight in a Scope" section at http://www.midwayusa.com/static/how_to_video....e050109 It covers everything from choosing rings to doing the sighting. After that, when you have a lot of time to do so, check out the other videos. Some good knowledge to be had. Enjoy.
lw

http://www.midwayusa.com/static/how_to_video....e050109

Ah... Spring!

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We were at the city zoo in Roswell yesterday. I thought you all would enjoy this...

Happy spring!

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You just made my excursion to WY this October much more anticipated! I tell everyone that I am going for the Antelope and Mule Deer, but YOU know why I really want to go. I got my first ever PD last year and I believe I could get addicted to shootin' them dogs very easily. I even checked out the local IBEW hall in Casper to see what kind of work they had available. I just might work out there as a "Traveler" if work goes sour here again.

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Hoghntr, you are a Union brother! I'm with local 424 IBEW out of Edmonton, Alberta. We're working flat out at the Shell scotford expansion site and plan to man up to 10,000 all trades asap. Come north young man! come north!

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I was looking at that image thinking "Wait a sec, there's NEVER that much grass near PDs, and the grass is the wrong kind"

...except in a zoo.

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oh my god thats plastic easter grass from some childs easter basket!

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He, he!

30-06 component selection

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Hello fellow re-loaders......Well it's time for me to pick yall's brain again. Now that I've got my feet wet re-loading .223 on my new RCBS rockchucker & have had surprisingly good success. I'm now looking to do the same with my 30-06. Here's a little bit of background on what my intended use is.....I deer hunt mostly here in my home state on Michigan, but I get out to WY & MT once a year to hunt mulies. So with that being said....toughs of you who have never hunted here in MI let's just say the North woods are thick, so most of your shots are a max of 100 yrds. but the norm is more like 25-50 yrds. What I'm looking for is your suggestions on bullet & powder selection to build a round that has maximum efficiency @ both 300-400 yrds for hunting out West & the short yardage here in the North woods of MI.

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Hmmm... best bullet for both 50-yard shooting and 400-yard shooting.

400 yards is not "long range" quite yet, so a flat-base bullet is still appropriate. A Spitzer-type bullet is appropriate, so round nose bullets are discarded.

Thick brush like you'd get in MI suggests a strong bullet in case you have to bust through a branch or two.

Since this is for hunting, I also suggest a premium bullet. While they are more expensive, they are still probably the cheapest part of the hunt.

Taking this into consideration, I suggest something like a Nosler Partition or one of the Barnes all-copper bullets in the 165-180 grain range (150-g for 308).

I would also get several boxes of a similar-weight match bullet. They are cheaper, which allows you to do a lot of shooting at the range. This practice will be invaluable in the field.... just make sure you load them to the same point-of-impact as your hunting load.

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Not to hijack this thread, but before heading out to WY last october, I found a great website (BigGameInfo.com) that has a free ballistics calculator. Punch in your bullet dia., bullet weight, bullet BC, velocity, scope height and click adjustment, and it will give you a chart out to whatever yardage you desire. It gives you the drop in inches, velocity, and number of come-up clicks, and even energy for every yardage. I found it to be very accurate and invaluable for shots over 300yds.

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I have hunted everything from jack rabbits and rock chucks to mule deer and elk with the good old .30-06. I almost always use 130 grain bullets. My son and I have killed several elk and mule deer with our .30-06's and 130 gr. bullets. We both killed antelope in Wyoming at distance last fall. See my blog for the photos and story. I load the Hornady 130 grain spire point for every thing except elk and black bears. I use the Barnes 130 gr. triple shock bullets for elk and blacks. I use 63 grains of H414 or Win 760 over a standard primer. I seat the bullet to within .008" of the lands and usually can get groups in the 3/4" size or less at 100 yards out of my light weight Ruger KM77R. Bob Hagel in his book "Game Loads and Practical Ballistics for he American Hunter"(Knopf 1978) has a big section on "brush busting" bullets. You can probably get the book at your library and read upon them. Best of luck. A well placed hit is lots better than a high powered miss.

http://www.accuracysports.blogspot.com

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Thanks Acc. Sports....In my adventures with my trusty 06 I've exclusively used the 165 grain ballistic tip boat tail from Federals Premium Vital shock line. I've had a bit of gunsmith work done to my Savage mod. 110 & I know its a real basic & ugly rifle but it shoots a 3 shot .500 group @ 200 yrds off the bench, so I'm not getting rid of it anytime soon.
My question to you is on your power & bullet selection.....Why not IMR 48-95 or varget? I am in total agreement with your selection of the Barnes triple shock, but I'm hesitant to accept you suggestion on the 130 grain round. Isn't there substantial kinetic energy lose down range on a bullet that light? Thanks!

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If your Savage shoots the 165 gr. bullets best, keep using them. There is little or no argument with success of a certain bullet. I have loaded H4895, IMR 4895 and Varget in different rifles and had good luck with these powders. I spent about a year shooting different powders for my particular .30-06 and found WIN760 and H414 to be the best for me. As far as down range kinetic energy is concerned -- I can only comment that elk steaks on the grill taste great whether harvested with 130 gr. or 165 gr. projectiles. Use whatever puts the meat in the freezer. Best of luck in all aspects of reloading and hunting.

Looking for powder

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I've been having a really hard time finding powder. Midway, Natchez, etc are out. I even called Hodgdon and they said all the powder companies can't keep up. Anyone have a lead on anyone with powder still in stock? Huge thanks.
lw

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Try Widener's

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I've been getting all my powder and primers from www.powdervalleyinc.com They have great prices and will ship up to 48lbs. of primers and powder mixed under same haz-mat fee. I don't think they have many primers in stock right now, but they should have powder. You will have to fax or e-mail proof of age the first time you order but you won't have to after that. They also carry cast and jacketed bullets at reasonable prices too.

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Thanks for the suggestions guys. These places and others seem to be completely tapped (well at least for the powders I wanted). I have a lead on a place that may come up with some soon. If anyone comes across a situation where somebody gets powder in stock I'd sure like to know. Thanks guys.

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Woodsman, what powders are you looking for? I have found Ramshot powders to be excellent performers and aren't usually sold out as much as the more popular powders. HUNTER is all I use in the .260Rem., meters great and burns very consistently. TAC works great in .223 and .308 loads. Best of all, Ramshot powders are usually a couple dollars cheaper than the big names.

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I have been thinking about Ramshot recently. I have an inquiry in with Western Powders for a lead on availability. I usually use Hodgdon Varget, 4198, 4895, 322 and others. I'll have to see what comes up. Thanks for the tip.
lw

Varmint Popsicles

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So i was talking to my dad in Maine this morning and he was talking to a guy that baits in coyotes in his yard. He had a strange way of doing it. I know there is probably some contention about baiting on here but im not looking to get into that debate. Anyway the way he was baiting was taking a bunch of random meat and carcasses throwing them in a plastic barrel then filling it with water and letting it freeze. then he peels the barrel off and is left with a giant meat popsicle. said it works really good because critters cant drag it away. I just thought it would be neat to share

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great idea! thanks

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ya know, got to thinkin,being out here in west texas, i might have to wait till next winter, just realized...aint got a freezer big enough

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I do the same thing. I call it a "meatsicle". Here is a thread that I posted about it with a pic.
http://predatorhuntcanada.ca/forum/showthrea....?t=1083

Javelin hunting

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Now I've shot prairie dogs, and called bobcat and coyotes. But I've got to ask...can one call javelina? We've got more and more javelina moving into our area and I need to know how to go about finding them reliably, hopefully when I want. Any suggestions? Thanks

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I'm not sure if you call them. They do come in to bait, and they can be conditioned to come in at certain times just like deer.

Since they are a native species, unlike wild hogs, their hunting is regulated by the state of Texas (and maybe other states, too).

Most people do not consider them edible, though others do.

Javelina do have musk glands and they smell a whole lot like skunk.

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Well, I won't have to worry about those pesky Texas hunting laws, I'm not in Texas! I understand they're probably inedible, we want to hunt them as pests...kinda like prairie dogs! Or they could be problems to farmers and ranchers...sorta like coyotes! Thanks for the info. We'll let everyone know how we do.

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Have you tried "Herrrrrrrrrrre Javelina! Herrrrrrrrrrre Javelina! I've got some candy for you!" :-)

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No, will that work? I heard their hearing was as bad as mine? (LOL)

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Hmmm, good point. Maybe we should call up Cass Creek R&D and have them build this call into one of their amplified models. :-)

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you guys are just being silly,,,everybody knows it is goink goink goink,,suey piggy,,here lil piggy..so stop being foolish!!!

What is wrong with y'all

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I can't get my mind around people that enjoy killing something for the sport of it. Killing for food or clothing is right and natural. Killing because you enjoy the carnage is unnatural and psychotic. Prairie dogs are only vermin to ranchers. Ranchers are vermin to the natural world. Cattle do more harm than prairie dogs. Prairie dogs are a vital part of their ecosystem, as they are food for many species. If they are food for you, then I have no beef, but many of you seem to want to exterminate them from the earth and get your sick jollies from doing it. You are a disgrace to real hunters.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090201/ap_on_re....ie_dogs

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Jpc's account has been deactivated. I'm going to leave the post in place. Jpc was a rude and unpleasant guest. I have escorted him to the door.

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Aw shucks..... Can't we play with the troll before you boot him?

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All righty then! More hate mail

You wanna save 'em? You buy the land and you grow 'em.

On an educational note:
Prairie rats cannot be exterminated through shooting. Shooting them is the least effective method of eradication.... It's so ineffective that it is not used for eradication. Poisoning is MUCH more effective at eradication, and is quite common. So is eradication by plague. Yes, the same Bubonic plague from the middle ages.

Also.... Varmint shooters do NOT want to eradicate them from the field.

"Ranchers are vermin to the natural world" Riiiight. You're more nuts than we are!

"You are a disgrace to real hunters." This ain't hunting, honey. It's SHOOTING. Until you get out and shoot small targets at unknown distances, in the wind, and those distances start at about 200 yards, you have no idea what you're talking about.

"...you seem to want to exterminate them from the earth..." Nope. Not true at all!

"...get your sick jollies..." Sigh. A sure sign of intolerance.

There is SO much ignorance in what you write

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According to this website http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/....gue.htm the plague was "accidentally introduced" to the north american praire ecosystems around 1899. It's not natural for them so they have no immunity to it. Plague tends to follow human civilization, so maybe you're shooting the wrong culprit.

As for Prairie dogs and cattle, read this from prairiedogs.org
MYTH: Prairie Dogs and Cattle Can't Coexist
Contrary to what many farmers, ranchers and the livestock industry assert, prairie dogs and cattle have a mutually beneficial relationship. Prairie dogs improve the forage for cattle, and cattle grazing allows prairie dog colonies to expand in mid-grass prairie. Both cattle and prairie dogs have demonstrated a preference for grazing together, just as bison and prairie dogs have historically preferred each other's company. The Journal of Range Management has published several articles that confirm these findings. 8*

Cattle-grazing, however, causes extensive ecological damage and is a poor substitute for nature's intended bison/prairie dog relationship.

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Yea.. I checked that web page. It appears to be written by someone who does not know what they are talking about.

"...inadvertent introduction of sylvatic plague into the North American prairie ecosystem around 1899..."
"...the plague was first documented in a colony near Lubbock, Texas, in 1946..."
So, it took ~45 years for the first PD colony to be affected?

"...sylvatic plague is widespread throughout the western United States, except in South Dakota."
This one is pure BS. I have seen colonies in SD devastated by plague.

The info on that page is highly suspect.

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It would be much easier to exterminate all the flies with a flyswatter or do you think that is jolly killing as well..As for that Rancher infestation,, an easy way to handle them is for us all to go veggie the Ranchers will fade away all by themselves problem solved..Although I don't soon see this happening,,especially with me I likes me Burgers way too much..A real hunter like you should be able to hunt up some Friends who are left wing enough to agree with you....But not my friends on this website here.

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it takes all kinds dont it! if were lucky he'll choke on a soy-burger

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I'm no PETA head vegetarian left wing soy eater. I'm sorry to dissapoint your notion that anyone who thinks you're nuts must be one of those "types". Like I said hunting for food, clothing, is right and natural. Hunting for sport displays a defect in your psyche. Yes, cattle do more harm to ecosystems than prairie dogs. You should all read more biology/ecology literature and less Guns n Ammo, it would improve your knowledge. Better yet, go spend some time with a native american who still knows the old ways. He/she would think your actions were those of lost children. If I had it my way we would all eat wild game that we killed for ourselves, farm and ranch land would be wilderness, and there would be a hell of a lot less of us on the planet.

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MYTH: Prairie Dogs Are Everywhere
Actually, black-tailed prairie dogs occupy less than 1 percent of the land they occupied a century ago. 6*

Remaining prairie dog acreage is usually in the form of isolated and fragmented colonies that cannot expand beyond their current boundaries. Especially alarming is the lack of healthy prairie dog complexes (multiple colonies occurring within close proximity of each other) that sustain the multitude of animals who depend on the prairie dog for food or the habitat they create.

Shooting has significant impacts on prairie dogs, including dramatic population reductions and social disruption which may result in genetic inbreeding. 5*

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"...less than 1 percent of the land they occupied a century ago.."
Unfortunatly, I do NOT trust your statistics.

Who counted them a century ago?
If anyone actually did, I'm betting the methodology used was very sketchy.

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Okay turd noodle,,After you get finished running down our sport as you have ..Maybe you'd like to give the anti's even more fuel for the fire by telling them what a benificial critter a Groundhog is..or how the loyal and beautiful coyote is a much maligned benifactor of small game..Like your analogy of our aboriginal people who only hunted for what they needed,,p-dogs were a way there young braves perfected archery skills,,and they fed them to there dogs..as for you go back to Europe or maybe Africa..crawl into a hole and shut the .uck up...

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jpc, You sure no how to make a guy laugh his azz off! Thank You. I need that sometimes.

The guys shooting them know a heck of a lot more about PD's then your tree-hugging azz.

Okay I'll go back to eating my popcorn and waiting for some more Extreme knowledge.

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I'm new to prairie dog "shooting" (only got to try it once so far) but I have hunted groundhogs extensively. I can tell you for a fact that the dairy farmers do not like to have these critters in their pastures for several reasons, and always welcome me back to exterminate as many of them as I and my friends can. The broken equipment and injuries to the livestock are just a couple of problems these varmints can cause. Oh, I know, dairy cows cause so much damage to the environment that this type of farming should be banned as well. We all know that milk is bad for you and should never be consumed by anybody, especially children.

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Why is it that anyone with their head on straight who realizes the mental defects in what you do automatically get the tree hugger lable? You have to believe that in order to "dismiss" what I'm saying as just some crazy hippie talk. I'm no vegetarian. Hugging trees seems foolish and retarded. I don't own a tie-dyed shirt or listen to the Grateful Dead. The difference between you and I is not some right or left wing ideology. The difference is you guys have no respect for life unless it's human life. That is a sickness our hunter/gatherer ancestors didn't have. Enjoy your little club of whack jobs. Being here makes me want to vomit rage, and take up a shooting sport of my own.

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While most of this thread has been extremely entertaining, this last post is rather disturbing. You may feel free to "take up a shooting sport of my own" but this is rather threatening and I have to point out that the people on this site are rather adept at shooting small targets at long range. In addition, most are rather adept at shooting in general and are more likely to either carry a weapon are be in close proximity to one. Now, its one thing to be spouting off the lefty crap, but really, do you want to take a threatening posture, especially given the target of your implied threat is quite likely capable of kicking your a** with or without a weapon any day of the week? You ask "What is wrong with y'all". Well, back at ya.

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"...anyone with their head on straight who realizes the mental defects in what you do"
Belittling and demeaning your undesirables. Check!

"...you guys have no respect for life unless it's human life."
Interesting argument.
However, it is completely baseless and shows your lack of understanding.

"...little club of whack jobs."
More demeaning talk. Check!

"...makes me want to vomit rage..."
Susceptible to emotional outbursts. Check!

"...and take up a shooting sport of my own."
Threats against others. Check!

Looking at what you write here with a critical eye, it appears you are a danger to others and in need of an immediate intervention.

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Hey Bud I was in the business of carrying at least one gun for a third of a century. I have a background in Psych & Sociology. Trained in Emerg Resp and Hostage Negotiating. Been wounded and have returned the favor on a more permanent basis. Grew up in agrarian background and learned to shoot at age eight. Have met individuals that sound the same as you at various quadrangles. Candidly I am not an adherant of Trophy Hunting and may even share some of your perspectives on various issues. You sound like an interesting person however there are indications that you "MAY" benefit from a professional perspective.

Should you possess anything more than merely pedestrian IQ you would seriously consider my input. However if you are just a spreader of bovine scatology or are some other type of vertical fornication, too bad. Think about what is being said and I'm sure that we can protect your privacy and still put u in contact with a competent therapist.

That was my long reply to ur words. I assure you that my short reply is much more succinct; consisting of just a couple of words.

Forgot to mention that my career ended in Internal Investigations and during my career was subjected to various psychological tests. I am one of the few people that can actually say that I've been to a shrink and passed all the tests.

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"...been to a shrink and passed all the tests."
That, right there, is pretty darn scary all by itself!

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Shhhh don't give away my secrets.....he's just about to take the bait! I had to sign-in again when an after thought struck me. I actually did some work with some guys down at Quantico way back when they still called it the BSU instead of the BAU. The name change was for obvious reasons....behavioral analysis instead of behavioral sciences. Thinks (sic) have changed in last three decades; for one thing I'm just a gritty old fart having some fun with some partially educated pseudo-intellectual that I'm willing to wager drives an old beater of a car and hasn't quite completed a post-secondary degree.

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I dunno guys. Maybe I'm just a local "run o' the mill sicko", but in my humble opinion, those gophers and 'yotes are just too fun to shoot! Who really cares what some treehuggin' J@ck@$$ thinks anyway?
Just my thoughts here,
Trooper

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So what is the largest source of income on the Rosebud? The casino or us? Maybe our new friend should talk to the Native Americans there!

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Hey, what happened to jpc? I've been a little depressed lately, with nothing in season and all, and I could use a good laugh right about now.

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yep that guy was flakey and fun at the same time,,but it ain't nice to pick on the mentally deficiant..

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Yep, that was a real hoot, right up until he flung out a threat.
"Being here makes me want to vomit rage, and take up a shooting sport of my own."

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someone shootin at me from a fer piece off when I am shooting at critters a fer piece off huh???all I can say is ooh I'm so scared..what a farkin fruitloop..well good ridance to bad rubbish..

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Havoc,
Is this thread going to meander over to the Hate Mail area? We havent gotten anything over there in a while.

Get your gun books at the Shooters' Bookshelf

varmint hunting, prairie dogs, coyotes, shooting, rifles, long range shooting

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