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Seekers of the Red Mist
(Varmint Hunting Discussion)

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	1 Classified Ads Coffee Events (7/0/0) (1 folders) Gear (60/0/0) Handloading (537/0/0) (2 folders) Humor Hunting wheels (20/0/0) Long guns (435/0/0) (1 folders) Misc (84/0/0) (3 folders) MostDangerous (29/0/0)	Optics (110/0/0) (2 folders) Photo Album (36/0/0) Politics (229/0/0) Predators (177/0/0) Short guns (72/0/0) species-specific varmints (73/0/0) (2 folders) Technology (13/0/0) Wildcat Rounds (111/0/0) (1 folders) ~FAQ ~Suggestion Box (44/0/0)

Merry Christmas

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This site has the best group of people ever..I hope all of your Christmas wishes come true!!!We are all stuck here on this Big Blue Marble so let us pray to the God of our choice and ask for Peace in this troubled world at this troubled time..I bid all of you Peace in the upcoming year..and Happy Hunting..
Shoot Straight!!!

243/06 Wildcat Cartridge

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I had a 243/06 Wildcat rifle built in the mid-1960's for hunting fox, coyotes & deer.
The chamber was reamed to the shoulder to 243 Win case dimensions, therefore it is stamped as a 243/06 & not a 6mm/06.

Loading the "100-gr Rem corelokt ultra bonded bullet" with 58-gr of H-1000, I believe it would do okay on elk. A lot of elk have been taken with a .243 WIN.

I know most of you would want a larger caliber, however, if you check the 243/06 Wildcat ballistics, in good hands it looks adequate for elk. The ballistics are found on the linked split-screen web pages linked below.

I do not want to spend the money for one or two elk hunts, as am 74 & will be lucky if I get in one elk hunt. udarrell

http://www.udarrell.com/hunting_shooting_bal....mes.htm

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What kind of velocity are you getting with the 243/06?

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I thought the .264 Win Mag was a barrel burner, crap-o-matic I imagine the .243-06 requires 6-packs of barrels to be purchased each season. I heard of a .22 ear-g-splitin-loudenbunger as a .224" bullet in a .30-06 case. Ask Winchester about the barrel life of the .223 WSSM? FACTS ARE: Lots of powder and small barrel diameter equals throat and accuracy errosion within a few hundred rounds.

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not to be a smart butt,,didn't udarrell say he was 74???he might not shoot a couple of hundred times more {no offense meant} and now to add a question of my own..what is wrong with a 243 for elk? lots of people take elk with archery equipment and I have seen the differance between bow kills and gun{243 win} on deer.. the gun results are dramatic..just my 2 dollars{inflation} worth

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I thought the Eargesplittenloudenboomer was a .224 on the .300 H&H Case.. All that taper feeding burning powder into the barrel and smooth bore quick...

Yes, there is a price for this "fun." 6mm/.284 is another. Great cartridge, just don't expect the barrel to last forever. luck.

Oddball and Different Calibers.....

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I was raised in a home where hunting and shooting were a huge part of my life. My Father collected firearms of all shapes, calibers, sizes, ages etc. He used to take a different rifle every year deer hunting. I guess i kinda inherited this from him. (Mom calls it "gunpowder disease") I love hunting and shooting but for some reason unknown to me I really like buying oddball guns and cartridges. Im only 21 but i have 26 guns of my own already and only a handful are the same caliber. I like to shoot the lesser known stuff. Most of my buds up here in Northern MN hunt with 30-06 or 270 ...stuff like that. I hunt with cartridges more along the lines of .257 roberts, 22-250AI, 45-70, 7MM WSM,.50 BMG, 6.5x55, 6mm Lee Navy...some others oddballs as well. Any one else out there have a favorite gun or guns thats in a less than mainstream caliber? Also i am looking at buying a ruger hawkeye in .264 win mag...i know its rep as a barrel burner but any further input would be appreciated. Thanx

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I have a weakness for the .244 Rem, later renamed the 6mm Rem. The parent case is the .257 Roberts or 7x57 Mauser.

The 243 Win has overshadowed it since the .244 Rem days when Remington sold rifles with a slower 1-12 twist. It was intended more for lighter bullets where the 243 Win rifles were sold with a 1-10 twist barrel.

Other than that, I like the 6mm PPC. Its a great varmint caliber, and very accurate.

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My father has three .264 Win Mags. and I don't see it as a barrel burner at all. His Rem. 721 (circa 1962) is in need of a new tube but that is after over at least 8000 rounds (for real). His Winchester Model 70 is a different story however, it never shot well and went downhill from there. His third is a Ruger M77 which wasn't a regular production run- and it still shoots very good after over 1500rds. It is a touch finicky to load but is an excellent flat shooting speedy cartridge. I have been debating on getting the Sendero .264 with the 26" heavy fluted barrel or an XR-100 in .308Win. This purchase will have to wait until next year, I am spending all my cash on an antelope/muledeer hunt to Wyoming next month.

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I forgot to mention that I also just finished my -almost an oddball-.260Rem (finally). I used my Savage 112 action and installed a Shilen heavy contour stainless tube with 1/8 twist. I put in in a Richard's microfit target culverson laminated stock that I finished myself. I also put in aluminum pillars and epoxy bedded the action. A Rifle Basix trigger was also installed. I topped it all off with a Nightforce 8-32X 56mm scope. Preliminary results are just over 1/2 MOA out to 300yds. (my gun club is too small!). I believe it will do better with lighter 120gr. bullets. This isn't really an oddball cartridge, but its ballistics were impressive enough to warrant this build. I can honestly tell you that I am not dissapointed in the least.

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Here's a picture of the rifle metioned above.

Project .260 Rem.jpg (665.8 kb)

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NICE looking stick!
At 0.5 MOA, it shoots nice too.

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Nice One!!!

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Keep us posted as to results of extending ur range. This is close to what I had envisioned to build. My partner back east still remains tilted toward the 6.5/.284, so we remain physically and intellectually about a thousand km apart.

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Would you mind sharing with us how much it cost to do the conversion? You have built the exact thing I was thinking about building. I am looking to build a 1,000 yard varmint gun and I think this might just be the ticket. It has the reputation as being very accurate. I have a 6mm that is really sweet to shoot, but I haven't been able to make any 1,000 yard shots with it. I think the bullets are just too light if there is any wind at all.

Paul

RE: Wyo trip

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Hog Hunter, the Flightless Bird fan: How'd ur Prairie Goat 'n' Mule hunt go? I'm 'bout ready to head east for grain fed W/T & Mules m'self, but am dreading the final negotiations for our collaborated effort in building a 1000 yarder. Bout four yrs ago, the morning they announced Dubya was re-elected I popped about a 160 B&C W/T. I'll be reminiscing about ur election day and wishing you well when I'm out freezing my canucks off.

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Winchester used some rather poor steel by comparison, in the .264 When they brought it out. A gun with a good barrel will be no worse than other calibers of that nature.

The reputation of a barrel burner stuck, however. I don't put any credence in it.

HM

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I just got back fom the antelope/mule deer hunt early this morning and I had a blast. I scored on a nice 15.25" antelope and a medium muley buck. The .260Rem. performed better than I expected. The antelope was dropped with one shot at 528yds. through the lungs and the muley was also dropped with one shot at just over 300yds. I used 120gr. ballistic tips over Ramshot Hunter powder. The best part of the trip was recording my first prairie dog kill. I got him at 540yds. in 20degree snowy weather with 10-25mph winds. I got him on the 8th shot. These little critters are definitely harder to hit than the groundhogs here in PA. I am kinda glad we don't have them here because I would be spending way too much on components! Shooting these guys is addictive! I am thinking of getting back out there in the spring for some fishing and PD/coyote hunting. It's only a 1600mile drive. My buddy got a nice female coyote running at 250yds. with a 7mm mag. Wasn't a whole lot left. Saw 8 others but couln't get shots.

The rifle build cost me about $1200 minus the original cost of the 112 Savage it was built on. Shilen barrel..$275 from Midway USA. Culverson-target stock...$200 from Richard's microfit stocks. Rifle Basix trigger...$80 also from midway ant the Nightforce 8-32X NSX...$700 used from a very good friend! I also got the bedding epoxy and aluminum pillars from said friend. Thanks Joe!

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Tnx for sharing and if u don't mind, ur data is to be used when trvl to Alta, where my amigo and I are still involved with decision about building our "Super Rifle". He still is leaning toward the 6.5x.284. It's only taken me about 50 yrs to teach him how to shoot (he's ex Air Force Captain type)so u can imagine the monumental debates....I guess were both stubborn old goats now.

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I have a 22CHeetah that I really enjoy. I shoot the 55 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip at an average 4150 fps measured by Chrony at 15 feet from the muzzle. The load is 49 grains of 4350 over the small rifle primer CCI 450. The problem is that the parent case, the BR Rem, apparantly is no longer being made. This was a .308 case with a small rifle primer pocket that was step-wise necked down and subsequently fire-formed to form the 22CHeetah case. If you hear of any BR Rem cases being available I would appreciate a heads-up. Thank you. Roland

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I use regular 243 cases with the large rifle primers, can't tell the difference , with a healthy dose of H414, 60 gr sierra hps am getting 4065 fps and sub 1/4 groups. No signs of pressure even in the Wonderful Texas Summer weather (over 100 degrees)

New guy problem

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This is my first post and I am trying to build my first long range rifle... Does anyone have any suggestions on a good stock maker ? Is the best stock made of laminate or fiberglass ? Any help would be great..
Thanks, John

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I bought a stock form Richard's Microfit(I believe the web site is rifle-stocks.com) for my .260Rem build and love it. It is the Target-Culverson model. I got it unfinished w/buttpad and it turned out great. As for materials, I have both fiberglass and laminated stocks and both perform fine. I like the looks of the laminated wood better and that is what most of my stocks are.

100_0119[1].jpg (211.7 kb)

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Thank you for the help Hoghntr,
Does the micro fit have to be glass bedded and does it have pillars ?
John

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It just comes as a drop-in unit. I pillar bedded and epoxy bedded mine. It was my first attempt at this and it wasn't too hard at all. It came out perfect and definitely shoots better than when I shot it "as-is". I can get around 1/2 MOA out to 300yds, and then it opens up a little (3/4MOA). Was only getting slightly under 1MOA beforer bedding job.

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I looked them up on the internet and they look great.. They said it would take about 8 weeks.. Im going to order tomorrow.. Thanks for your help.. Well let you know how it goes John

stock up, crap-o-rama

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I want to remind you all to stock up on the primers, powder, and projectiles that you will need for the next 4 - 8 years. I see the democrate controlled congress and white house taking away the relatively cheap ammo. and reloading components. Taking away guns is lots harder than taking away ammo. or making it so expensive no one can afford to shoot. Also, the Californication of lead bullets is going to run around the western states and eventually the entire country. If there is even a "chance" an endangered species might eat some lead bullet killed meat the liberals will take away lead bullets. Crap-o-rama!, what is happening to the world?

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Boy I'll say. The problem is I've been scouring MidwayUSA, Natchez, Cheapert than Dirt, etc and they are flat busted for many components. Buy em while you can, even if they aren't banned the demand alone will make them expensive. I'm also trying to simplify a bit by slimming down some of my component selection, powders in particular. Anyway good luck finding your components, it takes work to find them now. If anyone has a lead on bulk 55gr FMJ .224 bullets I could sure use a source. Thanks.

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Try Blackhills Shooters Supply - they are a good bunch and they include the shipping costs in the price so what you agree to buy is the total price you pay. www.bhshooters.com

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Great lead. Thanks!

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Now for those who wish to fight this "crap" effectively, The Leadership Institute offers training very, very cheap. [ leadershipinstitute.org ] I think. They prefer to train the young, but take anyone. This is our future. Send a kid or practice sticking your head between your legs so you will be ready to "kiss it good bye."

http://leadershipinstitute.org

1st timer

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Good afternoon....this is my 1st post to SRM & after much contemplation I've purchased my 1st P.dog lead slinging rig. in a rem mdl. 700 svsf II chambered in .223. Now the fun begins with bullet selection. What my intent is here on SRM is to get pointed in the right direction of locations SD/WY/CO/MT/NM or wherever. Now I'm not your average "flat-lander" from Michigan. I've hunted mules in MT & WY guiding myself several times after my 1st high dollar experience with a outfitter. So with that being said feel free to bombard me with locations. THANKS

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I personally like the Nosler Ballistic Tips. They are very accurate and have very good terminal ballistics. I settled on the 50-grainers for my varmint load.

Asking for directions to good PD shooting is similar to asking a fisherman where he goes fishing... that won't happen too often.

My experience has been good at and around the Rosebud in South Dakota. Landowners are very often happy to point you in the right direction. Getting a plat map, showing land ownership, is a very good way to start.

The Rosebud Reservation does require that you hire PD hunting guides. This is a great way to get on PDs right away and not have to spend a day or two scouting locations. With the plat map you can find & mark non-reservation land with PDs and ask for permission.

Check this post in the Classifieds here....
It is from 2004 about PDs in Wyoming, though it is a pretty good bet that it is still available.

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HB....I don't currently don't the equipment needed for reloading YET. But the Nosler Ballistic Tips have been recamended to me by several people.

In my deer hunting experiences in MT & WY I spent weeks & week going over maps & talking to Game & Fish. Even talking to the CO's. & game biologists for that area. But nothing beats putting your eyes on the area.

I've done a little looking around on line @ different outfitters & it appears the charge anywhere from $150-$300 per day!!! That's a little hard for me to swallow.

But like you said at least you get on PD's right away. Thanks for the info!

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Dear Silly,
"Bombard me with locations...???" i). If you think that someone with a "honey hole" is going to send you there to compete and kill off their enjoyment... you just ain't in touch with reality. Some times these are on family land and the shooter is not free to share if he/she wanted too... ii). There is this thing called "weather"/ "natural conditions" and the honey hole one year may be slim pickin's the next. In brief, you need to do "YOUR OWN HOMEWORK" for yourself and ... (not be silly???) ...

There is a ton of help out there. Never been shooting in south grasslands, OK, TX. I am told it is "pay to shoot" so go and bring money and... SW corner of Kansas there is a Nat. Grassland. Cimmaron. Lots of 'dogs some seasons, see ii). Same conditions in NE and CO. But nothing organized. You have to do your own homework. Non resident licenses are an expense. SD markets. Rosebud, S. Center of State. Google them. Standing Rock, N. Center. Pine Ridge west of Rosebud. Ft. Pierre Grasslands/Brule Reservation (Rez) center of state. Now SW corner of SD is Buffalo Gap Nat. Grasslands. Public land. Open to anyone. NO shooting in Badlands Nat. Park... #1). DO NOT get lost or broke down. You might be 100 miles from a Burger King... Bring water --LOTS. South in NE it is Toadstool Nat. Grassland... In Pierre, SD is VHA, Varmint Hunters Assoc. magazine, parties, advertising for guides... varminthunter.org ?? Check them out.

#2). There are areas closed to protect the black footed ferret, a weasel that almost died out of a housecat disease, per Fed game biologist. Shoot there and it is arrest, confiscation, fed. slam... You will NOT BE a happy camper... Be sure you find these areas and stay away, except for a picnic... etc.

Wyo is wide open. No license last I knew and tons of public land with ranchers that would love to have any non cow grass eater eliminated. Government hunters? BLM (Bureau of Land Management). Chambers of Commerce. Farm stores. Small town diners. Extension agents. Grazing assoc. Again, your homework.

ND and MT are farther north, colder at night, slightly less dense populations... Not to be ignored if more convenient. I always ran out of ammo in Wyo. Best of luck. Leave some gratituity, ham, case of coke, fruit basket (well, not around broke back mountain... ha, ha)... grease the way for the next shooter, home work doer... Happy trails.

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Mr ranger....WOW that was kind of harsh, but thanks non the less for the info. As you can see by the post you responded to I did do my "OWN HOMEWORK" in regards to my deer hunting experiences in MT & WY.

I've never done any PD hunting before or know anyone who has. So I was merely asking to be pointed in the general area, not an exact grid location.

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"Harsh?" Guess you might call it "tough love." I got awful tired, AWFUL TIRED, before I did my own homework years back of the sorry folks who would talk all day about the great time they had shooting and shooting and shooting and pests exploding and flying thru the air and ??? and SILLY ME, I would ask how I might get in on the fun and a HUGE silence broke out... "Well," "duh"... No help at all, just B.S. The "family land" excuse is common. Of course, I suspect some exaggerate a bit and some may be lying outright but others are just selfish, sorry, pigs, etc. (One old man claimed to have shot up a case of .22/250 in 2 days and I wondered, then he asked if anyone wanted the cardboard boxes... I said, "sure" and he gave me 18 or 21 Winchester boxes, said he would reload the brass and put it in plastic boxes for future use.) Problem shooters have. Big reason so few new shooters. [to editorialize...] SO I have "done my homework" and try to point people in the right directions... Couple organizations "don't like my style" (and offer little help)... oh wellll... At one time a grazing organization in ND was begging for shooters. Maps and everything for $10.- .. Saw a list out of SD extension of ranchers looking for shooters... In Wyo, Douglas I think, handled a list, 4 pages, typed, double spaced of ranchers begging for shooters. Stupid Fed rules allowed the agency (Forest Service??? a while ago) to give you rancher's name and address, BUT NOT phone. List rested on the local phone book. Both WELL thumbed. In case you missed it, this was before the last 10 years of drought in the grasslands. It is supposed to be ending, but the pests will take time to rebuild. Follow these leads, harsh or otherwise, and you, I hope will be as happy as I have been once or twice. [Take more than one rifle. Yes, I know you will be careful, "pace yourself" etc. LIAR. If you can do that you are a better man than most including me. I haven't burned out a barrel yet, but look forward to the day...] Luck. Happy trails.

Vote!

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I certainly hope all of our US members vote this election.

Just to keep this post VARMINT related:

For balance:
All Politicians are varmints:

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I worked the poles yesterday and it was very sad to see how many americans did not participate in the election. In my district alone we had over 42% not show up.

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42% not showing up says that 58% did vote. That is a very high voter turnout, historically.

I'm just darn glad that the House & Senate did not go with a Dem super-majority.

1st Prairie Dog Shoot. What to bring?

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OK, I custom built my AR, I bought a 17hmr for in close, I bought a jeep, found an Indian guide to take me into the rosebud, SD tribal lands. I booked a TeePee at the Salt Camp B & B.
Any advice on what to bring for a one day shoot?
The Guide is $75/day.
Any advice for a 1st timer so that I don't embarrass myself?

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In the interest of space, instead of copy and paste I'll refer you to the thread below named: First PD shoot - gear? People have given their recomendations and it seems a pretty good list. Don't be tempted to think "Its cooling down so I don't need as much water." or "It's only a one day shoot." Take it all. Its better to have and not need than to be putting all the effort into setting up the trip and leaving something useful home. Good luck, take pics. Get to know your guide a little. You never know what he might take you to if he likes you.

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Here's a link: http://www.seekersoftheredmist.com/perl-bin/....=1#5312

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Just a tip take it or leave it.I don't know how far you are traveling to get to the rose bud but I live in MI.and go to Wyoming to shoot dogs.No guide no fees just lots of shooting.Find a rancher that has not poisened and he can direct you to the dog towns.I don't know what range you like to shoot but plenty of ammo is needed.I use 2500 to 3500 rounds a week.The fish and game dept also has maps of dog towns in the grass lands for a couple of bucks that is well worth the money.It's well worth the extra drive .So start loading and have a ball good luck!!
wayne

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Wayne....I just joined SRM myself & I'm from Southeast MI too. After reading a few posts & looking @ some videos I just new I wanted to try my hand @ this. Were do you do your PD hunting @? This past November I guiged my brother & a few other guys on a deer hunt Southwest of Sundance in the walk in areas.

Doing what every red blooded male has wanted to do

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Well we finally did it. We did what every red blooded male above the age of 6 has wanted to do: Blow the hell out of mortal mans biggest enemy of sanity. Apparently I have to add the pics one message at a time so check out all three. Enjoy:-)
lw

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The victim:

The Victim II.jpg (510.9 kb)

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Die Satan's Spawn!

Oh Yea.jpg (950.9 kb)

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Parts is parts, pieces is pieces...

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Doh! Clicked add instead of adding the file. Here you go.

Largest Remnant.jpg (753.7 kb)

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I like Tannerite!

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Awesome! Ever try that on pumpkins? Just a thought with Halloween coming.

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An interesting idea. I'll have to see what we have hanging around. I should at least find a couple pumpkins. We have a bunch of apples, milk jugs etc. Its time to go out and have some fun. I just hope I remember the camera.

Happy Time-change Sunday... the "ghost messages" are back

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l haven't tracked down the code that causes those "ghost messages" to appear as "new since last visit" in the folder status area..... I keep thinking that maybe I'll locate the problem before the next time change, and I keep not. Oi.

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